When will I get my rings?
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It's pretty straight forward really. If we did that, we would have twice the packaging costs, twice the shipping costs and twice the manpower costs to accomplish this. Despite the finance that was raised initially through kickstarter last year, we cannot afford to have even more huge outgoing costs like this. We've tried our best to keep backers happy, including sending free rings out to people affected by the issues we've had, at our cost. You can surely appreciate we are trying our best to 'make this right' for you guys?
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I think people do not know if they fall into the category of "manufactuerer error" rings or not
Case in point, until you confirmed for me Lokki I was not sure if my rings were part of the PVD ring issue.
At some point in the future, this should generate some sort of e-mail to my account telling me my Titanium replacement will be coming. To date, I have not gotten any notice at all...not a criticism just a fact.
I have read/ listened to every update and only about 5 days ago did you Lokki confirm for me that I was affected by something. The info that is coming out is general(and good info at that).
Perhaps a long update, stating if you have X ring you will or wont be affected.. might allow people to figure out if they are included or not.
I know there is work involved and I understand that most things are NOT the NFC ring designers fault, more the manufacturer in China that keeps making failed rings. Concise info might alleviate some of the extra pressure.
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I think @Zackis has portrayed what I have been trying to say quite well. Until you guys explained, I had no idea that my rings had been delayed due to the issues. Whilst sending the rings separately adds additional cost, a personal email (not the generic updates) is free to send :)
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Perhaps if we bring the thread to @johnyma22 's attention and see if it's possible to do something like you're suggesting forth orders that are outstanding currently. Note that this may still take time that could be spent packing and such! But I will put forward that there are concerns and confusion remaining.
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@Lokki any effort made to help is appreciated VERY MUCH! I only offered it as a solution that would help me and perhaps a few others, cost benefit analysis certainly would need to be done. I understand that any effort made to alert people to their status slows down production, so keeping that to an absolute minimum certainly would be a good idea. Perhaps just a quick way for people to know if their rings are some of the affected ones:
if your order says "Black Plated Metal" that is part of the PVD issue ( my particular issue)
If your order says " X " then you are affected by issue "y".I can certainly comb through the forums looking for what rings = what problems but I realize that problems are changing, and I might not have the most up to date info...
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Hey @Zackis that's something we have considered doing any may do this week depending on when the rings turn up, it's a case of finding time tho, as you know we still have a LOT of fish to try so we're doing that and asking backers to follow the updates, they cover the rest of the remaining issues pretty thoroughly and work well providing our large audience with as much information as possible.
Note that a personal email will be unfeasible but we may be able to send an email tailored to the backers order with what they have ordered and which parts are delayed.
Re it not costing anything, it actually does cost us to man our support desk, generate these emails and send them out. Any time we're spending doing that is taken away from our time spent packing/shipping/introducing new features/bugfixing etc. At no point in a day are we sat around doing nothing, even our evenings and weekends are taken up replying to emails etc. It's tough because we're so swamped so putting anything else on our plate could draw our attention away from something mission critical...
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@johnyma22 actually I was defending you ...cost benefit analysis clearly shows working on individual problems vs problems involving larger groups is more cost effective. I'm positive your working towards solving any issues that you can.
I have heard your updates about pulling someone off the packaging line to do something like this means a slowdown in rings shipped. Surely tho you know that PVD rings fall into a category, as do Stealth bomber rings, as do I think the transparent rings...really I guess I was just asking for a list of "problem rings " so you could point people to it and say " if you ordered one of these rings we are doing this and that"...more self help than individual help.
I guess my wording was poor.
Keep on keeping on. I'll get my ring sometime this year, fair enough.
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Hi @Lokki I certainly appreciate your detailed response. I am not upset, maybe just a bit disappointed. I mean I have tried to follow all the update as well but was still left confused becuase I thoght that since basically my entire order had an issue, I thought I was going to get replacement ring(s) for the time being. I havent heard anything yet. Some people are positing that they are getting emails saying their order has been delayed. I havent even gotten that yet, only the info in the updates. I would also echo @Zackis suggestion, although I do understand this may be difficult. Really, all I want to do is use the ring and hope I can do so soon. I just really hope outside of the delays I dont have any issues with using it with my phone or door lock or it failing. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
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Hi @Zackis and @Nas, I'll reply to both of you at once, it's kinda the same issues really.
The updates touch on the major stuff, like the pvd issue and the carbon fibre, and most recently the lack of proper finishing on most of the delivered alpha rings and the use of the wrong transparent inlay on some others.
Also explained was that some of the more one-off designs that originally failed QA or weren't delivered by the factory at all are simply being ignored by the factory in favour of making batches of rings.
I can understand why they're doing that, it's easier. And it would make perfect sense if they were following what John has been asking them for... Therein lies the rub.
Now figure that the last of us waiting for rings are not waiting for all the same size and type - the factory isn't going to be able to just belt those through in one go, so the troubles are magnified more for the last orders. This is what John was explaining about the possibility of for instance a Ti/red/black becoming a Ti/red/transparent, simply because that one's available in the right size and sending the order back to the factory just increases the chances of things going worse wrong at this point and delaying that order further.
Replacement rings will still be going out, at this stage there'll be replacements for coloured metal rings, which will ship as size/style(alpha or normal) is available.
At the moment there are some sizes which are out of stock, which may be why you haven't received a notification yet. -
Yea @Lokki is correct here, we're basically STILL waiting on some rings.. *Frustration!
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No Mail with an delivery or confirm for my Order (kickstarter collection).
2 normals and one alpha. Can some one give me some Information? -
Sorry it would not let me edit my posting...should be the other way around. Fix the larger groups of people then the individuals...
@Zackis said:
@johnyma22 actually I was defending you ...cost benefit analysis clearly shows working on individual problems vs problems involving larger groups is more cost effective. I'm positive your working towards solving any issues that you can. .
I have heard your updates about pulling someone off the packaging line to do something like this means a slowdown in rings shipped. Surely tho you know that PVD rings fall into a category, as do Stealth bomber rings, as do I think the transparent rings...really I guess I was just asking for a list of "problem rings " so you could point people to it and say " if you ordered one of these rings we are doing this and that"...more self help than individual help.
I guess my wording was poor.
Keep on keeping on. I'll get my ring sometime this year, fair enough.
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@lars.albrecht they would need to know which rings you ordered.
So far if your a Black Ring, Transparent ring, a Carbon fiber ring, or stealth bomber ring the factory screwed up and we are "waiting" ( someone please correct me if I am wrong.
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@lars.albrecht @Zackis, pretty much right. If you say what you've got ordered I can most likely explain what's happened. If your ring isn't part of the most recent factory issues but is an 'oddity' of sorts, it'll be waiting to be re made or replaced. If you're sized in the range of 8 to 10 I think it was, and your ring was getting replaced then you may be waiting for available replacement stock (if your actual ring is going to be unavailable).
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@Zackis said:
@lars.albrecht they would need to know which rings you ordered.
So far if your a Black Ring, Transparent ring, a Carbon fiber ring, or stealth bomber ring the factory screwed up and we are "waiting" ( someone please correct me if I am wrong.
Also Alpha rings...in sizes 8, 9 & 10.
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Normal (Classic) Ring in Blue Plated Metal with a White top inlay cover and a Black bottom inlay cover in USA Ring Size 10
Alpha Ring in Blue Plated Metal with a White top inlay cover and a Black bottom inlay cover in USA Ring Size 9
Normal (Classic) Ring in Titanium Normal Color Metal with a Red top inlay cover and a White bottom inlay cover in USA Ring Size 10(The First classic ring is the alternative for the stealth bomber)
Is it possible to change anything right now? Alpha Ring with a Titanium Ring, not Blue Plated? (mail to support? or is it to late now? confirmation mail is in my box)
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Another query on delivery !
I've followed the reports about black carbon fibre not available and I've received the e-mail of change to black layer on 8/3/14 and the reports of Alpha rings and sizes 8 to 10 problems but nothing fitting my Kickstarter order of Titanium normal colour, normal width, Black/white layers in USA ring size 7 or does this fall into the polishing problem.
NOT a complaint, just wondering -
1st things first...I believe that you may both have what has been referred to as a 'Collection' which means they will only do 1 shipping when BOTH rings are ready.
@lars.albrecht..i'm 100% sure the Blue rings are part of the same issue as the Black PVD ring issue. The rings wont be sent until all the rings arrive and pass QA.
@Duddy if I remember correctly Carbon Fiber had to be redesigned( john showed the new design in the video) so according to his Youtube message I think that there is a longer delay...in addition there could be an issue with the Black color. The rings could be part of a collection so again no shipping till all the rings arrive and pass QA
@Lokki re-listening to the update dated 5/9/2014 john describes the issues with PVD rings Including the Black, Blue, and the Stealth Bomber Rings...are all three of these one and the same issue?
@lokki could/would you update the status ( as best you might know) of the following issues:
- Alpha rings - I Believe the alphas arrive this week according to the video ( are black alphas in this?)
- Stealth Bomber/PVD black and Blue rings recreation - 3 weeks until finalized design if I heard correctly so that means we are about 11 weeks out if my math is right?
- Carbon Fiber ring was eliminated from production supposed to be substituted with Stealth bomber( PVD issue) so a temp ring may come (even to people with multiple rings)?
- Size 8, 10.5 and 12, are out of stock.
Relating this to my order
Normal (Classic) Ring in Black Plated Metal (is delayed due to issue #1 & issue #2)
Normal (Classic) Ring in Black Plated Metal (is delayed due to issue #1 & issue #2) -
@Zackis, you're right.
Collections will ship as complete.
Titanium rings are the only ones not plated. Any colour which is not titanium coloured is plated and subject to the aforementioned PVD issues.
Carbon fiber is being worked on and if you read the latest updates there are good results so far. This will not affect what you are receiving for your pledge but you will be getting ring vouchers for later if your order was affected by the changes.- Alpha rings are in process and will be due to arrive soon, this will not included any plated rings. There are no plated rings being produced at present. No plated rings. At all. None.
- John is doing R&D, he's let us know that he thinks he has a solution and the solution is good. Don't do math, wait for him to say when it'll be a production possibility. No math. Math makes baby jesus cry.
- The only way a standard CF would be replaced with a black PVD Stealth Bomber is if an order change was made by the person - CF Stealth Bombers were replaced by all black Stealth Bombers and any coloured metal ring was subject to the PVD issue. Any plated ring will turn into a temporary replacement ring. Ring vouchers will be available to those who're affected. This will be later, so the potential to pick up a carbon fiber stealth bomber v2 is there. Note I said potential. Wait for John's final word on this once he is able to sort a factory for production of stealth v2.
- John will update us either here, the blog or KS updates when stock comes in and they're back to QA, picking and packing.
So your order being a multiple order has the potential to include 1 (one) PVD Stealth Bomber because it is a multiple order and one ring may have passed through QA before the issues hit the fan. Since you haven't already got the order in your hands it is likely going to contain at least one replacement ring.
Phew. Think we're done here, anything else? ;-)
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@Lokki said:
Any plated ring will turn into a temporary replacement ring.
This means, i will get:
My normal ring (as ordered)
A replacement for my plated alpha ring and voucher to get my ordered later
A replacement for my bomber and a voucher to get my ordered laterBut my replacement for the bomber is also blue plated, so, i get a a normal titanium ring with white top inlay and black bottom inlay, right? Can I do anything for this to support John (e.g. send a mail to the support where i write that i will a titanium instead of a blue plated)?
